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View Full Version : Is this multiple illnesses at once?



the_great_white
04-03-2017, 12:33 PM
I received an order of CPD's, Emeralds, and blue pearl shrimp on Friday from www.theaquaticarts.com and i believe they came with some illness(es). I lost 10 of 13 of my CPD's in the first couple of days to whatever this is and now it appears to be spreading to the other fish as well as what appears to be Ich and whatever is causing this long white waste from the Emerald in the last photo. Nothing has changed in my tank in the past 6 months other than the addition of the stock I received Friday. I e-mailed them about it and sent photos as well but have not heard back from them. Am I battling multiple issues? Thanks.
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smitty
04-03-2017, 12:40 PM
I don't see ick, but their gills are very inflamed, maybe I'm limited in my zoom. What are your parameters? How were they acclimated? How's the stocking, plants and hardscape?

the_great_white
04-03-2017, 12:52 PM
i'm having difficulties getting photos of the what i believe to be ich. tiny fish in a 50 gallon....but it looks like a grain of salt on them.
parameters as of yesterday, pH 7.0, Ammonia 0 ppm, NO2- 0 ppm, NO3- <5 ppm.
Acclimated via drip method, then lights out for the remainder of the day.
All other plants and hardscapes are ok and existing stock was fine until yesterday.
initially i thought the discoloration to be due to shipping stress, this is my first experience with shipped fish, but the CPD's started dropping like flies within 24 hours and now this is starting to show up in other fish.
I haven't lost any other stock in over a year until this weekend.

50 gallon tank with 8 green tetras, 8 ember tetras, 2 sparkling gouramis, 2 Otos, 2 Corys, 1Scarlett Gem Badis, 1 amano and Friday added the 13 CPD's (now 3), 13 Emeralds, and 10 blue pearls.

smitty
04-03-2017, 01:02 PM
Are they rubbing or hitting the glass or hardscape? I would hope it isn't ich, you'd need to treat the tank chemically. The more organic treatment of heat and salt will kill some of the stock, green tetra would be harshly affected at 85+ F. If it's ick it could settle into substrate, so the tank needs treatment too. I'd wait for someone else's reply, but I'd try to generally treat the tank with pimafix and erythromycin just to be sure I'm covering enough ground if it isn't ick.

Is the water soft or hard? My danios and tetras are in very soft water. Though danios can handle a wide range of parameters, so probably not a cause but it is hard to tell. They're a pain to get pics of.

Editing that green neons seemed to have had their upper temp range changed to 95, though I'd be nervous to put out there. That is just too fantastic a number in my mind.

the_great_white
04-03-2017, 01:21 PM
I've been watching them and they don't appear to be rubbing or hitting anything. they do kind of bounce their way through once whatever this discoloration is sets in.

smitty
04-03-2017, 01:23 PM
How is the older stock doing? How long have they cohabitated and shown signs of illness?

Pierre
04-03-2017, 01:26 PM
Unfortunately, CPD's usually have a hard time beeing shipped. So, while they may have arrived alive, the acclimatization process may also be the cause of added stress and thus death. Also, when you receive fish, especially from someone you do not know, QT them for at least 3 weeks, to avoid contamination with healthy stock.

In my experience, if it were icks, you will see fish covered before dying, not just one or 2 specks.

heatherbeast
04-03-2017, 02:00 PM
If it were ich, it would look like hard, discrete, bright white spots like salt or sugar grains.

Your CPDs look like they have columnaris, yikes. It can wipe out entire tanks in less than 48 hours. It is a very aggressive Gram-negative bacterial infection. You will need to remove your filter media because the antibiotics (eg, erythromycin, furazolidone, nitrofurazone, kanamycin) will also kill your beneficial bacteria!

heatherbeast
04-03-2017, 02:01 PM
Look up pics of 'saddleback disease' and see if that fits. You will need to get antibiotics to the rest of those fish PRONTO if you want to save them.

smitty
04-03-2017, 02:12 PM
It's great to have Heather here! The columnaris article I read stated erythromycin and pima/melafix are gram positive. In that case, I'm not sure which treatment I'd use, do you? The article also discussed a lookalike fungus saprolegnia, that would be responsive to erythromycin/melafix, the difference was noted under microscope.

heatherbeast
04-03-2017, 02:22 PM
Erythro does work best on Gram-positives, but it helps treat resistant columnaris that doesn't respond to more traditional gram-negative treatments. I wouldn't bother with the pima/mela frankly. Sapro tends to be much more slow-moving, and usually invades after injury.


It's great to have Heather here! The columnaris article I read stated erythromycin and pima/melafix are gram positive. In that case, I'm not sure which treatment I'd use, do you? The article also discussed a lookalike fungus saprolegnia, that would be responsive to erythromycin/melafix, the difference was noted under microscope.

heatherbeast
04-03-2017, 02:33 PM
See if you can pick up some Furan-2 at a petstore!

the_great_white
04-03-2017, 02:56 PM
thanks, i'll go pick up some and try that. I'm surprised anybody would sell fish in that condition.

smitty
04-03-2017, 03:03 PM
I've gotten awful fish from great shops and great fish from awful shops. Some fish are just more prone to disease after being shuffled around. Like Pierre said, CPD are very sensitive.

heatherbeast
04-03-2017, 03:14 PM
If the fish were visibly ill before shipping, they would have been dead on arrival. Columnaris moves REALLY fast.

Tropical
04-03-2017, 04:18 PM
Looks like you got the help for the fish, just want to add that Aquatic Arts is a "transhipper" they buy fish in bulk from Segrest/etc and then re ship them. They are a bit misleading, as they cover the box with paper, but you can find the segrest logo if you take it off. They also advertise QT the fish for months before selling, but I highly doubt that.

They do however have great customer service, and will refund you quite generously...

Tropical
04-03-2017, 04:20 PM
Oh and remove the shrimp before medicating!!! Many medications are fatal for them...

smitty
04-03-2017, 04:44 PM
It would take a pretty big operation to qt their transshipping model. Outside of select breeders I just assume transshipped farm fish. I'd expect a brick mortar to qt before an online store, wouldn't want infected displays on the floor. Hopefully they'll refund you. Premier in Marietta had some nice CPDs, greens, and embers as of yesterday at least.

Tropical
04-03-2017, 05:37 PM
It would take a pretty big operation to qt their transshipping model. Outside of select breeders I just assume transshipped farm fish. I'd expect a brick mortar to qt before an online store, wouldn't want infected displays on the floor. Hopefully they'll refund you. Premier in Marietta had some nice CPDs, greens, and embers as of yesterday at least.

Exactly why I doubt they QT(the reason for this thread!). They have a really nice website and great descriptions so it looks a lot nicer then Bluegrass Aquatics (which is also a major transhipper)...

the_great_white
04-03-2017, 08:13 PM
ok, ended up having to drive all the way up to premier aquatics to get some meds for these fish. not a short drive but the only place i could find that had something more than API General Cure...and petsmart didn't even have that.

Premier didn't have it either, but they set me up with Seachem focus and metroplex.

the_great_white
04-05-2017, 08:42 AM
The fish loss seems to have stopped and things seem to have settled down.

Aquatic arts has offered to replace the lost stock and are taking care of me.

Thank you everyone for your help, it has been greatly appreciated.