PDA

View Full Version : Fert issues continue...



Igster
04-02-2012, 09:51 AM
While I am getting some new growth on some of my amazon swords(new leaves, not larger size), and some new leaves on my dwarf sags and ruffled aponogeton, I am still not seeing any appreciable increase of plant growth in my 55g tank. The leaves of the mad. lace plant have all went bye-bye(any new leaves that came out turned transparent), and the tuber(or whatever the root thingy is) is pearling(is that a good sign?). The giant val is dead or dieing. The only thing flourishing seems to be some wisteria - a floating one has gone crazy almost covering half of the top, while a rooted one is putting out new branches everywhere. Tank parameters are unchanged - ammonia, nitrates, nitrites at 0, pH at 6, kH at 17 units, gH at 0, co2 at 30ppm. Lighting - 2 x 54w T5 HO plant bulbs.

Oh, and my macro solution has developed bacteria - cloudy white stuff -I know it's not precipitate, I grow bacteria for a living at work :)

Pierre
04-02-2012, 10:46 AM
Your Nitrates are 0... therefore plants need some, I am aiming at 10 - 20 ppm. You may also need to add iron.

Igster
04-02-2012, 11:33 AM
Oh - fergot to add - substrate is about an inch & a half of fluorite, topped with regular gravel.

geotek
04-02-2012, 04:43 PM
You need to up your dosing amounts or frequency. The wisteria is using up most of the nutrients you are adding to the aquarium due to it's exposure to high light levels. Your nitrates should be at least 10 ppm with at least some gH. If you aquarium has been low on nutrients for a while, the fluorite will also absorb them out of the water column.

I don't think bacterial growth in your dosing solution will hurt anything, in the future you could add citric acid to reduce bacterial growth.

Swords take while to respond to increased nutrients, so as long as new growth looks healthy, just give it time.

Pruning the wisteria might help some as well, as the floating one will quickly shade out all the other plants. I view the wisteria rapid growth as a sign you are getting closer to a healthy planted tank, you just need to adjust your fertilizing a little, and get used to pruning the wisteria. You may want to relocate the floating wisteria to another aquarium, or even a tub on the patio.

nalu86
04-02-2012, 06:24 PM
Up your KNO3 to 10-20ppm

do you dose dry or liquid? I dose dry and its way easier and cheaper than liquid dosing. (KNO3 + KH2PO4 3x a week and Plantex CSM+B 3x a week + some iron)

what light fixture do you have? (Brand) and what type of bulbs? (Brand + K temperature)

Maybe up your co2 a bit (yellow dropchecker) dropcheckers don't always work perfectly, up my co2 untill I see the fish gasp and then I down it with 1 bps, but make sure to keep an eye on your fish in this process (do it when you have 2 days off or so)

But basicly, it seems like you don't dose enough ferts (certainly if you have 0ppm Nitrates)

Igster
04-03-2012, 08:54 AM
I've been dosing acc. to the PPM method, from Rex Grigg's Planted Tank pages(http://www.rexgrigg.com/dosing.htm) ...adding 5ml micros and 5ml macros every day. I don't have a drop checker - I use a home-made diffusor that is basically a small powerhead connected to the bell of a gravel vac, plugged with a piece of poret. The CO2 runs thru a piece of tubing that empties into that chamber, and I have the needle valve set so that I get a bubble about every minute. My lighting is 2 T5 HO 54W bulbs, 5600K(can't recall the fixture brand name at the moment). I'll remove the large floating wisteria - a shame, since the rainbows seem to like it :)

nalu86
04-03-2012, 01:55 PM
I've been dosing acc. to the PPM method, from Rex Grigg's Planted Tank pages(http://www.rexgrigg.com/dosing.htm) ...adding 5ml micros and 5ml macros every day. I don't have a drop checker - I use a home-made diffusor that is basically a small powerhead connected to the bell of a gravel vac, plugged with a piece of poret. The CO2 runs thru a piece of tubing that empties into that chamber, and I have the needle valve set so that I get a bubble about every minute. My lighting is 2 T5 HO 54W bulbs, 5600K(can't recall the fixture brand name at the moment). I'll remove the large floating wisteria - a shame, since the rainbows seem to like it :)


1 bubble per minute? 30ppm?? impossible!!

you need at least 2 drips per second to have 30ppm but its possible you will need 5-7bps to get 30ppm. This all depends on your surface agitation.

I will look into your dosing methode, I dose Estimated Index (Tom Barr method).


High light, a lot of ferts, but very low co2 can do that to your plants.
You need a perfect balance between those and your plants will grow awesome and lush.

Edit: I was writing what you should dose what I read on Rex's website, but it seems like everything you dose is wrong.
Reread the whole part and write it all down. Start dosing dry like he suggest.

OR go here (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html), and read about the EI dosing, its a lot easier and you don't have to use your test kit anymore.
The EI is a suggestion dosing, little bit more or less won't harm. Check your plants, if you see symptoms of underfeeding (described on the link) feed more this or that.

Igster
04-03-2012, 06:21 PM
OK...some clarifications...

I just timed my CO2 bubbles - 1 every 15 seconds.

Dosing method - PPS-pro, using the amounts specified in: https://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/pps-pro
(I made 1 litre each of macro/micro nutrient solutions) Can also be found here: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/39491-newbie-guide-pps-pro.html

The 30(+/-)PPM CO2 is calculated based on the pH and the kH (pH x kH, 6.0 x 17.2ppm = 28.89ppm according to http://www.fishfriend.com/aquarium_co2_calculator.html )

nalu86
04-03-2012, 06:47 PM
OK...some clarifications...

I just timed my CO2 bubbles - 1 every 15 seconds.

Dosing method - PPS-pro, using the amounts specified in: https://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/pps-pro
(I made 1 litre each of macro/micro nutrient solutions) Can also be found here: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/39491-newbie-guide-pps-pro.html

The 30(+/-)PPM CO2 is calculated based on the pH and the kH (pH x kH, 6.0 x 17.2ppm = 28.89ppm according to http://www.fishfriend.com/aquarium_co2_calculator.html )

That last co2 calculation seems not right.

If you want to know your co2 level, but this is not really accurate stop injecting co2 for 24h and take measure your PH, than crank up the co2 until you see your PH go down 1 point, as example if your ph is 7 without co2, your ph should be around 6-6.2 to have +- 30ppm co2.

Edit, I inject 2bps in my 10 gallon tank to have 30-40ppm co2
I inject 15bps (hard to count but its something like that) in my 125 gallon tank to have a yellow dropchecker so 30-40ppm.

both tanks have little surface agitation, just enough "ribbles"* to keep the fish and shrimp happy.

*Ribbles: probably a word that I just invented?? Means water movement on the surface/ little waves.

EDIT: The more I read about PPS pro the more I get it, your light is to high for pps pro.
it seems like pps pro is just a basic easy to maintain formula to dose a tank and to take easy care of the plants (not that much trimming and maintenance)

With your dosing methode 1 T5ho bulb should be fine ( around 20-30par for your tank if your fixture is on top of the rim) that would be low to low-medium light.
Dose as pps pro goes and keep your co2 low (I would still go 1-2 bps)

Or you use both bulbs and dose EI with High co2.

Igster
04-03-2012, 07:18 PM
I'll have to see if my fixture can do just one bulb - it has 4 "sockets", or two pairs - one pair of actinics, and one of the daylights. I have the actinics unplugged(the fixture has 2 switches)...

bps...= bubbles per second?

Thanks!

nalu86
04-03-2012, 07:40 PM
I'll have to see if my fixture can do just one bulb - it has 4 "sockets", or two pairs - one pair of actinics, and one of the daylights. I have the actinics unplugged(the fixture has 2 switches)...

bps...= bubbles per second?

Thanks!

Hi,

Yes Bubbles per second.
also is your fixture an odyssea fixture? if so upgrade your bulbs.
odysseas can run on 1 bulb. I have one, did it for 8 months without ill effect.

Igster
04-04-2012, 07:00 AM
I can't see a brand name sticker on it anywhere... but I did loosen one bulb and it runs with just one perfectly fine.


And........*sheepish grin*...I looked at the bulbs...they are not plant bulbs..they say "10KK" on them. Methinks therein lieth the problem! I had assumed they were plant bulbs because the dude who I got the setup from had said he'd been growing plants...*facepalm* :)

nalu86
04-04-2012, 01:12 PM
10 000K s are ok best is between 5000K and 10 000K optimal 6700K.
How old are the bulbs, probably time to replace them also if you got the fixture from someone else.
look into giesemann bulbs, you wont regret, maybe pricy, but totally worth it! :)

Igster
04-16-2012, 09:26 AM
I think I have finally "dialed in" to the right conditions...nothing has turned brown, am getting longer leaves, pearling, and new growth. Woot woot!

Igster
04-30-2012, 09:47 AM
ACtually had to do a bit of pruning this weekend :) Wisteria and salvinia, very happy; A. crispus, hygro - new leaves getting longer & staying green; swords - same thing; Jungle val - new growth, still green, albeit slower..

Igster
06-05-2012, 08:47 AM
Tank update: Looks like it's finally "dialed in"! The indicator in the bubble counter is green, and i've got good growth all around)although I could probably use some root ferts for my swords(what brand, where to get?). Been pruning back stuff every weekend :)

rlswaney73
06-05-2012, 10:14 AM
osmocote plus in gel caps size 00 is a good low cost root tab. I can send you some, PM if would like... also like any root tab, you should push them down fairly deep into the substrate.

Igster
06-05-2012, 01:31 PM
Just googled "osmocote plus"....cool, I can get the stuff at a local hardware store or garden shop. Now to find where to get some gel caps :)

hsd
06-05-2012, 03:13 PM
Can you post a link to the osmocote you use? There are a bunch of different ones that pop up on searches.

rlswaney73
06-05-2012, 07:03 PM
Here's what the bottle looks like and gel caps size 00, the gel caps can be purchased at health food stores or various places online.

10251026

nalu86
06-06-2012, 02:06 AM
I read lots of positive feedback about doing this, but sometimes when you don't berry them deep enough can cause fish deads.

So berry them deep! ;)

Igster
06-06-2012, 09:05 AM
So, this can be used even though I do daily micro/macro fert dosing, as it is meant for the root systems of plants that get most of their nutrients from the substrate?

nalu86
06-06-2012, 06:35 PM
So, this can be used even though I do daily micro/macro fert dosing, as it is meant for the root systems of plants that get most of their nutrients from the substrate?

Yes, what substrate do you have?

Igster
06-07-2012, 07:00 AM
I have an inch of laterite, then another inch of regular aquarium gravel.

nalu86
06-07-2012, 01:16 PM
I have an inch of laterite, then another inch of regular aquarium gravel.

you sertainly should use roottabs with an inert substrate.

how are the rams and the angels?

Igster
06-07-2012, 01:37 PM
They are doing fine - I put the rams by themselves in a 20 gallon and they are sitting on a spawn: the angels are growing, still not paired up yet.

Igster
06-11-2012, 08:45 AM
I was only able to find regular Osomcote (not the "Plus") and gel caps in size 0...should they still work?

rlswaney73
06-11-2012, 10:36 AM
Size 0 is slightly smaller than 00 so might take more but should be fine.

I never used reg. Osomcote... I've read the composition is different from plus and may contain a different N source... watch carefully if u try this... also plus is a blend of macro/micro not just NPK

1028

Igster
06-11-2012, 11:34 AM
Quote: I never used reg. Osomcote... I've read the composition is different from plus and may contain a different N source... watch carefully if u try this... also plus is a blend of macro/micro not just NPK

From what I read off the labels the "Plus" is a 15:9:12 NPK plus a bajillion trace elements (8% ammonia 7% nitrate for the 15% N), and the regular stuff is a 19:6:12 NPK (10% ammonia and 9% nitrate for the 19% N)...

Igster
06-28-2012, 02:07 PM
I am starting to see some algae problems in my tank...getting tufts of BBA (I think) on the glass, as well as patches of hard-to-scrape lighter green algae (dots), both mainly growing on the upper half of the glass. Too much ferts? Too much light(2 T5 56W 6700k bulbs, on for usually 12 hrs/day)? Nitrates are a bit on the high side...

Demonfish
06-28-2012, 02:16 PM
bba likes nitrate and will grow even in low light. Can you dose K and Phosphate without nitrate/ammonia?