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wacky
06-07-2012, 04:47 PM
Well guys and girls . I got up this morning to find 3 Koi Angels DIED, and they were just beginning to color up orange about a quarter size they were in my 29gal Quarantine tank along with 3 German Blues, 12 Ottos and 6 Yellow Shrimp, the yellow shrimp were the only thing in the tank before last Thursday Substrate is small brown gravel with a piece of driftwood, some Texas Holey Rock, I think it is called, java moss, and java fern . 2 Hydro V Sponge Filter Pros . Temp is 78 .. Ph 6.6 .. Ammonia Level 0.25 . Nitrite 0ppm Nitrate between 0ppm-5.0ppm all the levels looked good .. Food, crushed fish flakes and blood worms not sure what more I could have done .. ANY SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME .. I am looking for some Koi Angels, Dime to Nickel size, that is if I can figure out what went wrong!!!!! I have only had 1 Endler die since I started back about 2 months ago and I think I crushed it by accident with a rock I was moving ..... thanks in advance for any help!!!

HN1
06-07-2012, 05:07 PM
Test your water for ammonia and nitrite. I'd suspect one or both spiked because of adding too much load, too quickly.

wacky
06-07-2012, 06:10 PM
The Ammonia level the day after was 0.50 and the Nitrite was between was 0.25 & 0ppm and 3 days later and then the day they died was Ammonia Level 0.25, Nitrite 0ppm and Nitrate between 0ppm-5.0ppm ....... again I am puzzled that only the Angel died???

caricell
06-07-2012, 09:51 PM
That Ammonia level bothers me.

peathenster
06-07-2012, 11:28 PM
What did they look like? Anything unusual? Angels are susceptible to some pathogens that don't bother other fish.

ahud
06-08-2012, 12:26 AM
Fish that small exposed to ammonia (any level is harmful) are going to be affected. Your best bet is to use a product like Prime that will bind the ammonia and keep up on your water changes until that ammonia level goes down. I am not sure .5ppm is enough to kill since your PH is low, ammonia is much more toxic in higher PH. But regardless there should never be any detectable levels of ammonia.

Is the tank cycled? You say ammonia is .25-.5, but nitrite and nitrate are 0. So you either have an ammonia spike or the tank is not cycled.

jimfur80
06-08-2012, 07:11 AM
Was the base of their fins to body look inflammed and red. If they were there has been a really nasty type of Ick going around that if not caught early is almost impossible to get rid of. I had it in my domestic angel tank and it ended up over a 2 week period killing all my domestics but the couple of wild peruvians I had never effected them at all. The bolvian rams in there never got it either. The ick doesnt look like the normal ick but it does fall off after the 3-4 days but when it comes back it just totally engulfs the fish. I tried salt , heat, quick cure everything but it would not help. All started from 6 kuhli loaches I put in there, I guess. Just a recent experience and of course a sad one at that, 15 angels.

Jim

pawslover
06-08-2012, 10:18 AM
Fish that small exposed to ammonia (any level is harmful) are going to be affected. Your best bet is to use a product like Prime that will bind the ammonia and keep up on your water changes until that ammonia level goes down. I am not sure .5ppm is enough to kill since your PH is low, ammonia is much more toxic in higher PH. But regardless there should never be any detectable levels of ammonia.

Is the tank cycled? You say ammonia is .25-.5, but nitrite and nitrate are 0. So you either have an ammonia spike or the tank is not cycled.

I'm guessing mini-cycle for whatever reason had more impact on the angels. Sometimes, we never know what happened.

My water comes out of the tap at .25 ammonia, so a low ammonia reading is not always created by the nitrogen cycle & waste in the tank. This is straying a bit off topic, but I have always been concerned about using products that bind ammonia for several reasons. The primary one is does that affect the nitrogen cycle by depriving it of the 1st component in the cycle? I also worry that if the ammonia is bound, then will the cycle complete and produce nitrates at the end to help keep the plants fertilized? Binding the ammonia also interferes with some test kits ability to read ammonia levels so I have always avoided those products that bind ammonia.

Demonfish
06-08-2012, 11:39 AM
Prime claims to leave the ammonia available to the filter bacteria while protecting the fish without messing up the cycle. It can change test results (some tests show "bound" ammonia, some don't) and it can reduce oxygen in the water. So use with care, especially at the 4x "emergency" level. But, IMO it is worth using during "cycling". Angels have small gill relative to their size and ammonia burn can cause lasting damage that will kill them later as they get bigger.

I agree that there are lots of nasty fish diseases going around, some kill really quick. But several dead at once with no warning symptoms and no other sick fish in the next month or so was likely water.

wacky
06-08-2012, 02:34 PM
The Angels looked just fine ..... well except they were nor breathing ..... but no spots or appearances of being sick ........ I guess the spike in ammonia from 4 days before got them or maybe they were sick ...... well thank you for your expertise ...... I am going to wait a wait a while to get any more angels ..... thanks again for your help!!!

Demonfish
06-08-2012, 04:28 PM
The other thing you can do is bring up the hardness a bit to reduce pH swings. Angel eggs and wigglers need soft water, but as they get bigger, they will grow faster with some carbonate in the water for their bones.