PDA

View Full Version : Native Species ID-Catfish



bolivianbaby
11-17-2014, 12:05 PM
This boy is around 12". We think he's a species of madtom. Can anyone help me ID him?

Thanks in advance.

Mog Carns
11-17-2014, 12:34 PM
Well, the picture makes it hard to tell. It is mostly a black catfish with blue eyes. However, more reading says that the fins are all almost exactly alike anyway, and that coloration is not definitive because it varies not only by age but water quality and substrate.

The fish that it most resembles is
http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/image.php?species=noturus_gyrinus&image_id=14230

However, the sizes do not line up well. Maybe it grows to a much larger size in the aquarium?



In any case, you are well aware of the prohibition of keeping any fish that Georgia considers Native, regardless of source?

bolivianbaby
11-17-2014, 12:46 PM
Well, the picture makes it hard to tell. It is mostly a black catfish with blue eyes. However, more reading says that the fins are all almost exactly alike anyway, and that coloration is not definitive because it varies not only by age but water quality and substrate.

The fish that it most resembles is
http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/image.php?species=noturus_gyrinus&image_id=14230

However, the sizes do not line up well. Maybe it grows to a much larger size in the aquarium?



In any case, you are well aware of the prohibition of keeping any fish that Georgia considers Native, regardless of source?

it's not mine, just trying to help someone ID, but no I didn't know that. I don't catch fish to put in my tanks (didn't know it was illegal-just not something I'd do anyways).

Mog Carns
11-17-2014, 01:49 PM
I don't think that is a GA native species, so likely no issue. Just something to be careful of if it turns out differently.

RLHam3
11-17-2014, 04:07 PM
Can you post a profile picture from the side? It makes it easier to ID

schillbw
11-17-2014, 04:57 PM
Really?! Can't keep any? So there is no legal collecting in ga?

Demonfish
11-17-2014, 05:41 PM
I think there is some exception for "bait" and you may be able to get a license from the DNR. But be careful, taking endangered species without specific permission is a crime.

HN1
11-17-2014, 06:41 PM
You can legally collect "bait fish" and "non-sporting" fish in Ga with a valid fishing license. Endangered species are obviously off limits as well.

Larry Bugg
11-17-2014, 06:57 PM
http://www.atlantaaquarium.com/showthread.php?5280-Native-Georgia-Aquarium-Fish

schillbw
11-17-2014, 09:52 PM
Thanks for the clarification. A spring fed creek runs through my property and I catch minnows and crays often from it. All bait.

mountainman36
11-18-2014, 02:47 PM
You can legally collect "bait fish" and "non-sporting" fish in Ga with a valid fishing license. Endangered species are obviously off limits as well.


This. i graduated for UGA with a fisheries degree, and we studied a lot of the native fishes. the regs are pretty clear on this. no keeping game fishes....although i have never had a DNR officer knock on my door to check and see if i was keeping only non game fishes....

i have a native fishes tank. Its fine to collect them, as HN1 said, just not game fishes. however, the real issue is introductions, not releasing the native fishes in the wrong watershed....the fishes from west atlanta are different from the east atlanta suburbs, so the fishes dont mix, and even though many are the same species, they are slightly different.

your fish is some type of bullhead catfish. madtoms all stay less than 8" or so, most only 4-6" so its not that.
Black bullhead is my guess, because its so dark. however, some of the others can get pretty dark too.

Rusty
10-29-2015, 08:48 PM
yeah I second that. black bullhead for sure.

I studied marine science at CCU, but learned about these as kids playing in the creek. We always found them right below the pond dam in moving water

caricell
10-29-2015, 11:10 PM
Rusty: You are responding to posts that are a year old.Please check the post dates before responding.

HN1
10-30-2015, 09:37 PM
Are there forum rules against posting in old threads? I don't mind the flashbacks.

Glad to see you searching and reading the forums Rusty!

Rusty
10-31-2015, 07:21 AM
wow didnt really expect that response caricell

Rusty
10-31-2015, 07:29 AM
If that's the kind of nit-picking administrators on this board do you guys have seen the last of me...

aXio
10-31-2015, 09:12 AM
If that's the kind of nit-picking administrators on this board do you guys have seen the last of me...

I don't think Larry was being aggressive at all. He has been administrator on this board for a long time and I believe his intentions are good. It is part of an administrators job to keep the forums clean, and sometimes that includes making sure people aren't accidentally bringing back out dated threads. I know Larry pretty well I would say, and I know him not to be the type of person to do this maliciously.

oxheart
10-31-2015, 03:13 PM
I agree I think you are taking this wrong . Larry is a good guy , just trying to keep things straight and flowing smoothly .
Rick

Rusty
10-31-2015, 10:50 PM
Axio and Oxheart- you'll have to forgive me, I dont know him. All I have to go by is whats written in front of me.

While I do get you guys vouching for your long time administrator, I do not get how someone reading and contributing to your forum has obstructed the "flow" of it in any way. Nothing I said was negative or inappropriate. If it was out of place then pass it by... And if a topic is so far dead that certain administration do not want it further commented on then remove the thread.

You see there are two types of forums.. With one type everyone is friendly talks about whatever there on the board has piqued their interest. Everyone is polite and even if the post is out of place somehow they just move on and leave it be. The other type is more of an old boys club type affair... New ppl are smarted off to and made to feel unintelligent at every chance. Their posts are nit-picked by the resident know it all. Nothing they say or do is right.

This isn't my first time around the block. I've seen this type of stuff in other online forums. Lets hope this forum isn't another one were the same hand-full of folks are always rude and run off all the new members.

Tangfan
10-31-2015, 11:39 PM
I've been on this forum for a year or 2, and I will say the comment struck me as a little off kilter as well. Not because it was directed to me, but because I have never seen a comment on a post similar to that in the time that I have been on this forum. I will not go as far as to say it won't happen again (I seem to always get surprised), but I will say it is not a normal occurrence. As proof, I will say read more threads and you will see for yourself.

As as for difference of opinions, I vastly enjoy them, they give me something to think about and ponder. You will see that on most fish forums since many ppl keep the same fish in many different ways.

again, I am not trying to stick up for anyone to take sides, just calling things as I see them.

caricell
11-01-2015, 09:52 AM
Folks:

There was no malicious intent involved, I assure you.

Often, as in the case with new people just coming onto the forum, their settings are not set to just show them current threads. So, they see everything and may not know or think about checking the dates of the post. I've seen new posters go through all the posts they see (often going back 2 years), and post a response to many of them. It is my job to make them aware of what they are doing.

I was simply advising Rusty that he was responding to an old post that may no longer be relevant.

"Flashbacks" isn't the issue here, Len. If someone wants to respond to an old post and *know* they are doing so, that's fine, and that's why we don't hide or delete old posts unless there's a reason to.

Welcome Rusty!

michael wolfe
11-01-2015, 03:18 PM
Check your shoulders there Rusty... I think you got a chip... I am not even a member here.. and just hang out to jump into a few topics every once in a while... specifically native fishes... but these guys are all friendly and pretty easy going... its pretty much standard practice to read everything, but only comment on stuff that is more current. No one is picking on you.

cswain123
11-02-2015, 07:30 AM
Not to jump on or create a bandwagon but rusty articulated what a lot of new members feel. I'm a newer actual club member but have been on the forum for a while. He couldn't have said it better, you disagree with the comment or don't like it, then don't respond. If the post is too old to comment on delete it. I've seen plenty of "rude" responses on here. It hasn't been bad the past year I feel like but I used to see some pretty good ones on here lol.
Since the can of worms has already been opened my forum pet peeve: if someone is trying to sell something and you think the price is off or not fair, don't buy it! You don't have to tell them their fish/tank aren't worth what they're asking or even worse that they should just give it away are. They'll figure it out. There's recent comments like this that make me cringe.

Great native species thread otherwise!



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

aXio
11-02-2015, 08:26 AM
Not to jump on or create a bandwagon but rusty articulated what a lot of new members feel. I'm a newer actual club member but have been on the forum for a while. He couldn't have said it better, you disagree with the comment or don't like it, then don't respond. If the post is too old to comment on delete it. I've seen plenty of "rude" responses on here. It hasn't been bad the past year I feel like but I used to see some pretty good ones on here lol.
Since the can of worms has already been opened my forum pet peeve: if someone is trying to sell something and you think the price is off or not fair, don't buy it! You don't have to tell them their fish/tank aren't worth what they're asking or even worse that they should just give it away are. They'll figure it out. There's recent comments like this that make me cringe.

Great native species thread otherwise!


I understand what you are saying... but please re-read what Larry actually posted...


Rusty: You are responding to posts that are a year old.Please check the post dates before responding.

He even used the word please... I'm not sure how much nicer he could have worded it. I have been on forums of all kinds pretty much my entire life. And this is very standard practice everywhere. A sentence like that shouldn't have emotion put behind it... if you put emotion behind text it usually gets WAY misrepresented.

Now with that said I'm not saying there isn't a problem in general... while I personally haven't noticed any issues on this board other then people tending to put to much emotion behind what others say in text... but I feel like this individual situation was very much a misunderstanding. Larry is merely doing his job as a administrator.

cswain123
11-02-2015, 10:43 AM
Please check the post dates before responding implies if it's old then don't post on it. "Please"

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Rusty
11-02-2015, 11:19 AM
Just drop it folks I'm done here. I didn't make the post to divide the group or to be accused of having a chip on my shoulder. Trust me if I had a chip on my shoulder I would've reacted in a different manner. I reacted as professionally as possible to being shushed in a place where I assumed I was free to speak. Regardless of who misunderstood what this is my final post with this group. And I have no doubts that Larry is a good man and meant no harm. Just the same I don't feel welcome nor find it worth the drama.

Administration feel free to delete my user profile. Take care everyone

caricell
11-02-2015, 11:35 PM
Hey, Rusty:

I'm right behind ya. I just resigned as Administrator as my "hostile" post, as it was referred to in the Board of Directors' forum apparently didnt sit well with someone and they want to revamp the whole administration of the forums. Well..have at it. I'm Done.

Larry




Just drop it folks I'm done here. I didn't make the post to divide the group or to be accused of having a chip on my shoulder. Trust me if I had a chip on my shoulder I would've reacted in a different manner. I reacted as professionally as possible to being shushed in a place where I assumed I was free to speak. Regardless of who misunderstood what this is my final post with this group. And I have no doubts that Larry is a good man and meant no harm. Just the same I don't feel welcome nor find it worth the drama.

Administration feel free to delete my user profile. Take care everyone

Mog Carns
11-03-2015, 10:29 AM
There is very little rudeness on this forum. In general, the only rudeness you see is the rudeness you are specifically looking for. Text does not convey tone... unless you use specific language in the four letter variety to really assert the tone back into the narrative. If you want rudeness, you would have to go to another forum. In fact, I imagine that if you bring up that you thought something was rude, you would immediately get a response that that was not the intention in 99% of the interactions. Please note, someone having a different opinion from your own is not an attack.

Forums are superior to other forms of social media specifically because they lack character limits and remain searchable. When you search for a specific issue that comes up rarely, you find forum posts that go back ten years, but the info is still relevant. Necroposting, bringing a thread back from the dead, is generally frowned upon. If the thread is about the treatment of Black Brush Algae, and you resurrect a post that has become a general reference of the subject to interject news of a new treatment, no one is going to bat an eye. If you are posting that you too have BBA, people respond less well because you have lengthened the thread, people have clicked it looking for new info, only to find that your post was useless. That causes forum admins no end of grief.

You might notice we have had a large number of people making an account for the sole purpose of necroposting old threads with useless drivel. Because people offering a specific rare species of fish for sale ALWAYS still have them four years later. So, lets not pretend this one post exists in a bubble.

Given that, I am really not sure how an admin could be more polite in telling someone that they are necroposting.


Now, lets examine this one thread in detail.

There is one very blurry photo of a fish taken at a not great angle.
The photo is a year old.
The fish in question is not in the OP's tank, but a friend.
The fish was positively IDed a year ago.


Rusty has two possible reasons for posting.

He is a clueless older gentleman with a poor understanding of the internet and the passage of time that thinks that ALL THREE: BolivianBaby's friend still has the huge destructive catfish, BolivianBaby still cares, AND, BolivianBaby does not trust mountianman's ID of the fish as a black bullhead.

Or, option two, Rusty is a jackass (note: Intentional personal attack for a willful destructive act) out to annoy people and cause trouble. Usually called a troll in internet speak.


The admin responded as if the issue were option 1. However, it is now clear that the true answer was option two.





Notice the clear overreaction. When no one took the bait the first time, he immediately double posted to double down the outrage.

Despite evidence to the contrary, he continues to act as if twelve racial slurs have been slung and physical assault has occurred. Claims knowledge of the internet, but denies knowledge of the commonly accepted etiquette of the last 15 years.

Finally, seeing he has gotten as about all the trouble he can wrangle while still playing the victim, makes his dramatic goodbye post. He is still a novice at trolling. Better ones set the account up months instead of days in advance, and make the leaving post a drama filled tear jerker in a completely separate thread.

aXio
11-03-2015, 11:20 AM
There is very little rudeness on this forum. In general, the only rudeness you see is the rudeness you are specifically looking for. Text does not convey tone... unless you use specific language in the four letter variety to really assert the tone back into the narrative. If you want rudeness, you would have to go to another forum. In fact, I imagine that if you bring up that you thought something was rude, you would immediately get a response that that was not the intention in 99% of the interactions. Please note, someone having a different opinion from your own is not an attack.

Forums are superior to other forms of social media specifically because they lack character limits and remain searchable. When you search for a specific issue that comes up rarely, you find forum posts that go back ten years, but the info is still relevant. Necroposting, bringing a thread back from the dead, is generally frowned upon. If the thread is about the treatment of Black Brush Algae, and you resurrect a post that has become a general reference of the subject to interject news of a new treatment, no one is going to bat an eye. If you are posting that you too have BBA, people respond less well because you have lengthened the thread, people have clicked it looking for new info, only to find that your post was useless. That causes forum admins no end of grief.

You might notice we have had a large number of people making an account for the sole purpose of necroposting old threads with useless drivel. Because people offering a specific rare species of fish for sale ALWAYS still have them four years later. So, lets not pretend this one post exists in a bubble.

Given that, I am really not sure how an admin could be more polite in telling someone that they are necroposting.


Now, lets examine this one thread in detail.

There is one very blurry photo of a fish taken at a not great angle.
The photo is a year old.
The fish in question is not in the OP's tank, but a friend.
The fish was positively IDed a year ago.


Rusty has two possible reasons for posting.

He is a clueless older gentleman with a poor understanding of the internet and the passage of time that thinks that ALL THREE: BolivianBaby's friend still has the huge destructive catfish, BolivianBaby still cares, AND, BolivianBaby does not trust mountianman's ID of the fish as a black bullhead.

Or, option two, Rusty is a jackass (note: Intentional personal attack for a willful destructive act) out to annoy people and cause trouble. Usually called a troll in internet speak.


The admin responded as if the issue were option 1. However, it is now clear that the true answer was option two.





Notice the clear overreaction. When no one took the bait the first time, he immediately double posted to double down the outrage.

Despite evidence to the contrary, he continues to act as if twelve racial slurs have been slung and physical assault has occurred. Claims knowledge of the internet, but denies knowledge of the commonly accepted etiquette of the last 15 years.

Finally, seeing he has gotten as about all the trouble he can wrangle while still playing the victim, makes his dramatic goodbye post. He is still a novice at trolling. Better ones set the account up months instead of days in advance, and make the leaving post a drama filled tear jerker in a completely separate thread.

I just want to stay thank you for posting what a lot of us were probably afraid to out right say. I don't think I could agree anymore. The fact that we may potentially lose some one like Larry because of situation like this frustrates me to no end.

gofish
11-03-2015, 09:31 PM
I count 20 responses, including this one, to this old thread. We're all guilty! I'm closing the thread so we can move on!

:tongue:

Brian

caricell
11-03-2015, 09:44 PM
Though I wouldn't go so far as calling Rusty a jackass (and I didn't even think that), what I do feel strongly about is my recommendation to Rusty to check the dates of posts before responding being referred to as a "hostile" post requiring the need to have more administrators on the forum. That's why I'm not doing this anymore.

Thanks to the majority of you for your support.

Larry


I just want to stay thank you for posting what a lot of us were probably afraid to out right say. I don't think I could agree anymore. The fact that we may potentially lose some one like Larry because of situation like this frustrates me to no end.